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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:46 am 
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We just deployed a few Windows 10 PC's (Dell 3050).

Windows is version 1703 + CU from 2017-08-10.

Classic shell was installed by extracting the MSI file from the installer and deploying it with a GPO.
We have done the same for all our Server 2012 with version 4.3.0 (now being updated to 4.3.1 by removing 4.3.0 and installing 4.3.1) without problems.

On 3 different computers I have now experiened Windows becomming unresponsive after a while: Windows cannot open/maximize, explorer does not show files, startmenu does not open etc.

If I open task manager and restarts the explorer.exe process Windows continues to run for some time (up to several hours) before the issue is triggered again.

This morning I uninstalled CL and Windows has performed nicely ever since.

Let me know if I can help you debug the issue by providing what ever logs/info you need.

FYI:
I did read about the sound driver issue and can confirm the PCs has Realtek Audio driver version 6.0.1.8142 from 2017-05-08 installed. RltkAPO64.dll v. 11.0.6000.568 is part of the driver.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:54 am 
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Try running control.exe to open Control Panel and see if Explorer hangs or freezes. Realtek's driver, like IDT's driver is known to ship with a driver file that causes Explorer crashes when Control Panel is opened on Windows 10's newer releases.

Also, try renaming the extension of the file, RltkAPO64.dll to RltkAPO64.old temporarily and install Classic Shell. See if the problem comes back. Classic Shell, when it loads the Start menu, caches the contents of the Control Panel. That may cause an immediate crash/freeze.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 2:10 pm 
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Thx for your input.

I will be away until next week, but will follow-up when I'm back.

/JP


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 4:57 am 
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Check the thread count of the explorer.exe process when Windows 10 becomes unresponsive. If it is higher then 800 explorer doesn't respond anymore and you have to restart it.

See also this topic.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:54 am 
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Thx.

I will try to dig into the issue next week.

Plan:
* Install CS 4.3.1 with start menu feature only (this is actually all we need) and verify problem is still present.
* When problem occurs check number of threads for Explorer.
* Test renaming/uninstalling Realtek sound driver.
* Report back to this thread.

Let me know if you need anything else. Thx! :-)


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:29 am 
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We're having exact same issues as this on both Windows 10 and Server 2016.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:31 am 
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Please if anyone finds a way to exactly reproduce this, please give us the steps. Like: is there any specific trigger that causes Explorer threads to skyrocket like this when the Classic Start Menu is running.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:42 am 
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coolgrool wrote:
We're having exact same issues as this on both Windows 10 and Server 2016.



Interesting.

Perhaps we can exclude the sound driver assumption if you can confirm your Server 2016 does not have a sound card?


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:43 am 
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If needed I can provide remote access to a Dell 3050 having the issue... (early next week)


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 10:54 am 
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@JPVJ, the thread count issue can be different one from the one you are facing. Don't assume anything and perform your tests first. :)

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 12:18 pm 
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JPVJ wrote:
coolgrool wrote:
We're having exact same issues as this on both Windows 10 and Server 2016.



Interesting.

Perhaps we can exclude the sound driver assumption if you can confirm your Server 2016 does not have a sound card?



Yep - no sound card in my server 2016 build!


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 2:30 am 
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Hi all,

Sorry for the delay - things are busy here.

Today I did test another PC (Intel NUC). This does not have the RealTek HD Audio sound card.

100% same experience: After Classic Shell was installed Windows became unresponsive after approx 30 minutes.

As soon as explorer.exe was restarted things went back to normal.

I forgot to check the thread count before restarting the process. After restarting thread count for explorer.exe was 87 up to 106 when playing around in Explorer/Control panel etc.

Seems like a glitch with build 1607 and Classic Shell.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 3:04 am 
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PS: I know this is a free tool (unless we donate), so I have not expectations or requirements for support/fix. I would however be nice to know if somebody is looking in to this issue from a developer side of things.

I would love to continue using ClassicShell, but if no solution is "around the corner" we might try some of the other "Classic Shells" out there - at least until the problem is identified and fixed. If anyone has tried other start menu programs, please share your experience.

For me MSI file for installation (GPO based) is a must and for the users we just need something that works and looks like Windows 7 startmenu.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 5:58 am 
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JPVJ wrote:
PS: I know this is a free tool (unless we donate), so I have not expectations or requirements for support/fix. I would however be nice to know if somebody is looking in to this issue from a developer side of things.

I would love to continue using ClassicShell, but if no solution is "around the corner" we might try some of the other "Classic Shells" out there - at least until the problem is identified and fixed. If anyone has tried other start menu programs, please share your experience.

For me MSI file for installation (GPO based) is a must and for the users we just need something that works and looks like Windows 7 startmenu.



Same here... are any devs actively looking into this? Windows 10 & Windows Server 2006 both having random crashes with explorer.exe and classic shell 4.3.1 :(


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 9:05 am 
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There are countless of reasons for crashes or freezes. You need to capture a crash dump for me to investigate.
As for the thread count issue, so far there are no clues what is causing it. Somebody suggested it may be related to a particular GPO. He was going to try to narrow it down.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 4:58 am 
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Ivo wrote:
There are countless of reasons for crashes or freezes. You need to capture a crash dump for me to investigate.
As for the thread count issue, so far there are no clues what is causing it. Somebody suggested it may be related to a particular GPO. He was going to try to narrow it down.



We have very little/few GPO's applied, and it still crashes for us here


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 2:33 am 
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Just a little update from my busy schedule:

We just deployed 25 Windows 10 computers. 8 Intel NUC (older/reinstalled) and 17 new Lenovo.

The issue seems to be unrelated to brand/sound card. I happens perhaps once per hour +/- with our normal workload. Thread count is 800+ when it happens and restarting Explorer.exe process temporarily resolves the issue.

Users are not local admins in case it is relevant.

Let me know how to get a memory dump and I will be happy to provide it.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 5:09 am 
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Update: We removed CS from all clients.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:04 pm 
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Hi,

I've exact same problem with CS 4.3.1. Each hour, explorer stop's responding (task bar not refreshed, unable to double clic to launch program from desktop, but launched software works fine)
I need to show task manage with Ctrl+Shift+Esc and kill all (1 or more) explorer.exe process and restart it.
It's OK for 1 hour and stop again.
If I quit CS, it's OK, no more problem during all the day.

Windows 10 1703 french 64bit.

Olivier


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 4:24 pm 
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Add me to the list. I have been trying to find out what has been causing my explorer to hang. I thought it was Directory Opus and worked with them to discover they were not the issue. When I run sysinternals process explorer I found out it was Classic Shell.
The first thing I do when I start a new install is use ninite to install some apps, and ALWAYS use classic shell. I am seeing this exact issue on Win10 1703 and 1709 and Server 2016.

Please, I cannot live with the Standard windows menu and I purchased Start10 and it isn't even close!

Here is a screenshot:


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