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PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2015 11:08 pm 
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Hiya, my idea is to have a classic explorer that I can customize with images instead of icons. This will allow me to create a true classic explorer like the one in windows 98.

Also to enable a menu bar (file, edit, view..etc)




Things we'd need to make this happen:

1. With the addition of icons, the ability to use images instead with a active/disabled state. This includes separators but without the states.
2. To be able to drag the classic explorer to the proper place. Already possible, but could be moved above the address bar, along with the file/edit/view menu bar.
3.To enable/disable the current back/forward/up buttons that windows 10 uses so that you can focus on the classic explorer.
Possible with the program I attatched to my post.
4. To bring back the menu bar with file, edit, view etc.
Possible with ribbon disabler. EDIT: It doesn't work on windows 10. I get the critical error about cortana and start menu not working.
5. To be able to place images anywhere on the explorer window, such as the picture of 'address' just before the address bar. Could be useful for adding custom items on the right side of the explorer window as well as having them elsewhere too such as items on the far top left, and far bottom right ( two different lines. ) A custom adress bar could be moved anywhere as well. Possibly separate toolbars would make this possible.
6. Move the classicshell explorer above the current address bar as well as menu bar.
7. A custom address bar. Using the program I have attatched to the thread, you can disable the windows 10 default one. You can move a custom address bar below the classicshell explorer like windows 98 has. You could also edit the address bar to look like the windows 98 address bar too.
8. A custom menu bar that you can edit & etc with classic shell since the ribbon disabler doesn't work on windows 10.
9. A hover/hot state for button images like windows 98 has.



Edit: A menu bar is possible with ribbon disabler. Thanks to Gaurav for this, I thought ribbon disabler only disabled the ribbon, but didnt bring back the menu bar. EDIT: It doesn't work on windows 10, I get a critical error about cortana and start menu not working.

As suggested by Gaurav, you can move the classicshell explorer by 'unlocking' the toolbar, then moving it. You can't however move it above the address bar.

Update: By using a program made by Anixx called 'borderfix', I was able to disable the current address bar, plus the current back/forward/up buttons.
With this, classicshell explorer can enable it's own address bar so that you can only see the classicshell explorer, and not windows 10's default.

You might need zero dump installed for this to work.
http://www.softpedia.com/get/Programmin ... Dump.shtml
I've uploaded the borderfix program for Ivo to see.

Image here:


Which is alot closer to the classic theme.


Attachments:
borderfix_combine.zip [548.36 KiB]
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Last edited by redblade8 on Sun Nov 29, 2015 6:45 pm, edited 20 times in total.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 4:19 am 
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Or you could use an icon editor to insert images.

You can bring back the Menu bar on Windows 8/8.1 or Windows 10 using Ribbon Disabler: http://winaero.com/comment.php?comment.news.20

Rest of the features you requested are all heavily locked down by Microsoft.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 10:14 am 
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Gaurav wrote:
Or you could use an icon editor to insert images.

You can bring back the Menu bar on Windows 8/8.1 or Windows 10 using Ribbon Disabler: http://winaero.com/comment.php?comment.news.20

Rest of the features you requested are all heavily locked down by Microsoft.



Dont .ico icons only support sizes of 32x32, 64x64 all the way to 256x256? If you wanted to do an image that was 10x20 and you used a 32x32 .ico and on the same window have an image that was 80x120 and you used an .ico that was 128x128 how would classic shell behave? Can there be different sizes of .ico's on the same window?

There would also be a noticiable border around those images as .ico only supports sizes of 32px and etc. This border would create unwanted gaps between back/forward/up and etc.

Plus what if you wanted to use an animated .gif image or a .png or .bmp that has stacked images for an animated image?

Is it not possible to move the classic explorer to a different place than it currently is? Id like to move it to the same place as windows 98 has it, instead of on the right side of explorer windows.

What about adding custom items anywhere on an explorer window?


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 8:29 pm 
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Icon sizes are the maximum allowed size. You can put a 10 x 20 image inside a 32 x 32 icon. You can also put 80 x 120 image inside a 128 x 128 icon. The rest of the area can be transparent. Of course, you cannot mix different sizes on the toolbar. Windows does not support that. All toolbar buttons need to have the same icon size.

To move the Explorer toolbar, go to a folder like Control Panel and right click the toolbar area and unlock it. Then move it by dragging its handle and lock it again.

Windows does not allow placing buttons or images in arbitrary locations in the Explorer window.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 10:45 pm 
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Gaurav wrote:
Icon sizes are the maximum allowed size. You can put a 10 x 20 image inside a 32 x 32 icon. You can also put 80 x 120 image inside a 128 x 128 icon. The rest of the area can be transparent. Of course, you cannot mix different sizes on the toolbar. Windows does not support that. All toolbar buttons need to have the same icon size.

To move the Explorer toolbar, go to a folder like Control Panel and right click the toolbar area and unlock it. Then move it by dragging its handle and lock it again.

Windows does not allow placing buttons or images in arbitrary locations in the Explorer window.


Thanks for your reply, it's much appreciated. The rest of the area would be transparent, but you would have a transparent border around it creating gaps between your items.

Unlocking the toolbar works, but it won't allow me to move the classicshell explorer above the address bar like windows 98 has. Edit: See my first post, I updated it.

What does Ivo think about my idea for adding images and everything else to make this possible?


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 5:00 pm 
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http://s1.postimg.org/9gy2ergen/openwindow.jpg

Thats what i would do with classicshell if adessbar was made custom
I support this


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2015 12:51 pm 
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*sigh*
I'm just going to disregard the odds of this actually happening, and post my "what if" concepts:

OR

Now imagine that with Visual Styles.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2015 11:28 pm 
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Here's an update on the classic explorer. This is classic shell, as it would look like with the custom items added.



And also:


Thanks for viewing, it's much appreciated. =)


Last edited by redblade8 on Sun Dec 06, 2015 9:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2015 10:36 am 
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Yes, I fully support the idea of making fully classic explorer like in Win95-XP.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2015 11:11 am 
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Well, there are plenty of Explorer replacements out there. Making one from scratch is years of work. You'll have better luck starting with one that is closer to what you want and suggest to its author to add the missing features.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 26, 2015 3:16 pm 
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I managed to make some of the buttons from 98 usable with Classic Shell, within Windows 7. Tested on Win 10 some time ago and I had no problems.

Here's a link of my Windows 7 explorer

http://www.deviantart.com/art/Classic-W ... -484011281

As for the Adress bar I haven't found a solution to move it or make it's background white.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 26, 2015 8:09 pm 
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korsyo wrote:
I managed to make some of the buttons from 98 usable with Classic Shell, within Windows 7. Tested on Win 10 some time ago and I had no problems.

Here's a link of my Windows 7 explorer

http://www.deviantart.com/art/Classic-W ... -484011281

As for the Adress bar I haven't found a solution to move it or make it's background white.


Well, that's pretty close.

One thing I'd like to add is that you could make the Windows 7 (<-) (->) navigation buttons invisible via some simple resource editing. In fact, there's a tool to do that easily, if I recall correctly.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 4:19 am 
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I found the tool a while ago, but many users reported problems if used and I didn't go with it. As for the resource editing, I've found nothing regarding this. Many said that the buttons are hard coded and can't be removed without some repercussions.

As a side note, isn't there a way for us to use the old explorer from previous versions of windows? XP would be the best candidate I'd say.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 4:55 am 
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korsyo wrote:
I found the tool a while ago, but many users reported problems if used and I didn't go with it. As for the resource editing, I've found nothing regarding this. Many said that the buttons are hard coded and can't be removed without some repercussions.

Actually, I just meant you could make them invisible or something .-.

korsyo wrote:
As a side note, isn't there a way for us to use the old explorer from previous versions of windows? XP would be the best candidate I'd say.

Well yes. I did try that a while ago. Problem is, those require compatibility mode, meaning they have to be launched from a location other than C:\WINDOWS . But explorer windows are always launched from C:\WINDOWS , meaning that you can only get the Taskbar and Start Menu from older versions of Windows D:

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 31, 2015 10:50 pm 
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Ivo wrote:
Well, there are plenty of Explorer replacements out there. Making one from scratch is years of work. You'll have better luck starting with one that is closer to what you want and suggest to its author to add the missing features.


I understand that you are a one man army which may make things difficult for you, and that adding new cusomtizability may
not seem to interest you, but please consider it at least. I think that adding more customization to your program would be
wonderful and provide users with more options than they currently have. I think that customization is the future of the
classic shell explorer.

Sometimes it's good to do something new in order to move forward. Like how you changed the start menu from being a .ini to
a full out graphical user interface. The new gui was written from scratch wasn't it?

Here's a quote from your old .ini:

'; This file is used to customize the items in the classic start menu. You can add, remove or rearrange the items, as well

as change
; their name, icon and functionality. The possibilities are limitless.'

Do you not want to make the possibilities limitless with your explorer as well?

I tried other explorer replacements as per your recommendation & I think that classic shell is the closest explorer replacement right now to what I'm looking for. The only closest explorer replacement besides classic shell that I found has been abandoned since 2009. Classic Shell seems to be the only one that will skin the control panel.

One huge difference to your program and the other explorer programs out there is that yours is integrated with the actual explorer
windows which will open with every window. The others are more of a program instead of a toolbar but won't open with the control panel.

If anything, may you consider adding a custom address bar at least? As the one thing I'd pick to take from all of this.
I have an .ahk script attatched that removes the default address bar, to help create a custom address bar on a new toolbar.
The source code can be found here: http://www.classicshell.net/forum/viewt ... =10&t=3433

My second thing that I'd pick if I could would be a customizable menu bar, since the ribbon disabler isn't supported by windows 10 officially yet, and that would actually give you customizability options unlike the ribbon disabler.

Also, a happy new years to everyone! =)


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 31, 2015 11:58 pm 
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I don't understand the purpose of the features you are requesting:

- "Custom menu bar"
This will have to be implemented as a toolband. Did Microsoft make it possible for toolbands to be operated using the keyboard? I don't know. If keyboard operation is not possible, the "menu bar" you can have won't be a true menu bar, it can only be operated using the mouse, crippling 50% of the usability. It will be the same as the current Explorer toolbar, but only with text labels instead of icons. You can already do that using Classic Explorer Settings - configure the toolbar to work like a menu bar by disabling icons and using only text labels plus subitems. Plus, the "File menu" portion of a genuine menu bar cannot be implemented since registry/contextual verbs are not possible.

- "Custom address bar"
What is the purpose of this? What additional or missing functionality can this offer that the current Explorer address bar does not have?

"Images instead of icons"
- Again, why I don't understand? You can already put PNG images inside ICO files. So what's the functional purpose of this change?

Any features you want implemented should have some usability, productivity or value-added benefits - which enable users to do something that's not already possible in Windows Explorer. I don't see the point of hiding Windows Explorer UI elements that work without issues and and replacing them with custom additions that pretty much do the same thing.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2016 10:56 pm 
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Gaurav wrote:
I don't understand the purpose of the features you are requesting:

- "Custom menu bar"
This will have to be implemented as a toolband. Did Microsoft make it possible for toolbands to be operated using the keyboard? I don't know. If keyboard operation is not possible, the "menu bar" you can have won't be a true menu bar, it can only be operated using the mouse, crippling 50% of the usability. It will be the same as the current Explorer toolbar, but only with text labels instead of icons. You can already do that using Classic Explorer Settings - configure the toolbar to work like a menu bar by disabling icons and using only text labels plus subitems. Plus, the "File menu" portion of a genuine menu bar cannot be implemented since registry/contextual verbs are not possible.

- "Custom address bar"
What is the purpose of this? What additional or missing functionality can this offer that the current Explorer address bar does not have?

"Images instead of icons"
- Again, why I don't understand? You can already put PNG images inside ICO files. So what's the functional purpose of this change?

Any features you want implemented should have some usability, productivity or value-added benefits - which enable users to do something that's not already possible in Windows Explorer. I don't see the point of hiding Windows Explorer UI elements that work without issues and and replacing them with custom additions that pretty much do the same thing.


I'll try to describe what features I'm asking for.

1. a) The answer to your question if the menu bar could ever be operated with hotkeys with the keyboard, is yes.
This was possible with windows 95 to windows 7. I'm not sure about windows 8, or windows 10.

b) Just having a custom menu bar would be good enough for me since the ribbon disabler doesn't work for me in windows 10. Sure, not being able to use hotkeys might be a drawback, but not a total setback. Being able to just use the mouse would be good enough.

c) "You can already do that using Classic Explorer Settings - configure the toolbar to work like a menu bar by disabling icons and using only text labels plus subitems"

This isn't a viable solution though. You should be able to have both the back, forward, up and etc buttons with the addition to the menu bar.
The menu bar should be on a separate toolbar from the navigation buttons.

I couldn't find the option to disable icons, and use text labels. I did however find how to make subitems. But does that make it so that you can't use navigation buttons still? I'd like to be able to have a custom menu bar with the addition to the regular navigation buttons.

Here's an image with subitems that I took:


d) "Plus, the "File menu" portion of a genuine menu bar cannot be implemented since registry/contextual verbs are not possible."

This, is very useful information, thank you. Does Ivo also agree with this statement? Replicating a menu bar, with custom items such as 'go' and 'favorites' is not possible because the registry/contexual verbs are not possible?

I would say myself that it is possible, since browsers such as k-meleon has file, open, and also edit, cut, copy paste. If it wasn't possible, then k-meleon wouldn't have a menu bar at all, correct? Another program with a menu bar would be firefox, and kompozer too. How did they add the menu bar with commands there? I'd say 'if it's made, there is always a way to create it.' Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Also, there are commands that already exist in classic shell that would help towards creating a menu bar.
An example of this is that under the menu bar in windows 98, you have the item named 'view'. Under this there are the options that let you view 'large icons' , 'small icons' , 'list' , and 'details'. Classic Shell currently has all of these options. There is also under the menu bar in windows 98 an item called 'edit' there you have the options 'cut' , 'copy' and 'paste'. Classic Shell has these options. I'd say that it'd be possible to have a menu bar with these options, as well as adding new ones too.

If there are no registry/contextual verbs possible, then how were these created within classic shell? I'm sure that this also applies to new ones as well that if the current ones were created, so can new ones as well.

Maybe I am missing something about what you meant about the registry/contextual verbs not being possible. Please fill me in if I am, thanks.

2. a) The current address bar has the back , forward and up buttons next to it. We don't need these if classic shell provides these buttons. They are just in the way and is an eyesore.

b) The address bar currently cannot be moved below the classic shell explorer toolbar.

The address bar used to be always below the buttons in the explorer windows in windows 95 to windows xp.
This would provide more of a classic explorer feel. This is one of those things that you could say 'don't fix what isn't broken' and microsoft broke it. So this would be an amazing addition to classic shell.

c) They do the same thing, yes. But that's not the point, what is though is that it'd be nice to have the address bar below the classic shell buttons like they were in windows 95 to windows xp.

3. a) I recently found out that .ico's actually support custom resolutions such as 90 x 10 px, without having to use a square background such as 16 x 16, 32x32, and 256 x 256. I asked the forum sevenforums, and they said there that only square sizes were supported, however on another forum I found proof that custom resolutions were possible.

b) I'm pretty sure that classic shell doesn't support .ico's on the toolbar to be different sizes. Such as a 32 x 32 px icon, and a 64 x 64 px icon on the same toolbar.

This is where images would come in handy, since it would allow this behavior.

c) If the icons were all the same size, yet the images were not, say the icons were all 64 x 64 px, and some of them would be 50 x 50 px inside the icon, and some of them were 24 x 24 px inside the icon, wouldn't you have unnessessary transparent space around the images, when you only wanted exactly 50 x 50 px, and 24 x 24 px? Images would allow you to have the exact dimensions that you'd like, without any transparent border, and would support different sized images on the same toolbar.

d) Support for animated .gif's, animated .png, and a .bmp film strip such as with the start button which can be animated by scrolling through the stacked images. Images would be useful for this as well.

.ico's just can't do this as far as I know.


What I'm proposing has its usability, productivity & value-added benefits for the user too. Which isn't possible currently with classic shell. My idea is towards the users favor, total & full customization with the classic shell explorer would be an added benefit to the classic shell experience which would benefit many.

Anything else, just ask & I'll try to answer as best I can. Thanks.


Last edited by redblade8 on Sat Jan 02, 2016 12:06 am, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2016 11:45 pm 
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What you are not getting is Classic Explorer is an add-on for File Explorer. It is limited in terms of what it can do because it must use the APIs provided by Microsoft. The toolbar is possible because Microsoft made that extensibility model possible for Explorer. You are asking for features which can only be coded in a standalone program.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2016 12:05 am 
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Gaurav wrote:
What you are not getting is Classic Explorer is an add-on for File Explorer. It is limited in terms of what it can do because it must use the APIs provided by Microsoft. The toolbar is possible because Microsoft made that extensibility model possible for Explorer. You are asking for features which can only be coded in a standalone program.



So you don't have a problem with anything else that I wrote?

I tried my best to answer all of your questions. Is there anything else? You didn't seem to reply to everything. Thanks mate. =)


Is it true Ivo that you are technically limited as to what you can do as Gaurav said? Also see my other post I posted Dec the 31st, thanks, its much appreciated. ^^~

I would say that a new toolbar with the address bar would be possible though as the one thing I'd take from all of this.

My second, a menu bar on another separate toolbar I'd say would be possible, but now I'm not so sure after what Gaurav wrote about being technically limited by microsoft.

Although, I'd still say that it'd be possible since it's possible to have a cut, copy , and paste button on the toolbar. Couldn't a menu bar with 'edit' and cut, copy , and paste be possible since buttons with those commands are possible? And Gaurav said that it's also possible to have text on a toolbar, with submenu's, so you could have a menu bar with 'edit' and cut copy and paste in there, as well as other options such as 'file' open, 'view' small icons ,large icons, details & list.

But, just an address bar Id say would be the most feasible thing to do. This would be the one thing that I'd take from my entire idea, it isn't asking for much, as compared to full customizeation of the classic explorer shell. Nothing has to be done, but maybe the address bar is do-able? I'm not sure, it's just an idea.

With Anixx's program that disables the current address bar, I think we're a step closer to that. Which makes it easier by taking some work out of it as that part is done already.


Last edited by redblade8 on Mon Sep 26, 2016 5:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 9:26 am 
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redblade8 wrote:
Here's an update on the classic explorer. This is classic shell, as it would look like with the custom items added.



And also:


Thanks for viewing, it's much appreciated. =)


How exactly did you make it like that? i attempted this it ruined my file explorer it looks like this


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 5:43 pm 
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Hi, thanks for your reply. This is just an idea/concept art currently, so it won't work. Maybe one day, but for now it's just an idea & concept art. Thanks again for your reply, it's much appreciated ^_^


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 7:35 pm 
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I feel the need to mention Styler Toolbar...

...again...

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2016 11:31 am 
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Hi, thanks for the input, it's much appreciated. ^^
What does styler toolbar do? I went to google and looked for images of it, and didn't find much.
Can you have an address bar below the toolbar buttons, a menu bar, and custom back, forward, and up buttons?

Here's an image I found of styler toolbar:


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2016 11:40 am 
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Styler Toolbar adds a highly customizeable toolbar which can be skinned for different appearances and layouts. It can replace the main XP toolbars' functionality in a much more elegant-looking manner.

So basically it's exactly what this thread is asking for, but for Windows XP only ._.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2016 6:03 pm 
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Ok, thanks for letting me know. It's too bad that it doesn't work on any OS other than windows xp. :s
The screenshot I found looks like vista though? Or it could of been a visual theme plus the toolbar on windows xp that made it look that way.

Do you know if the source code is available? I'm not sure what license ( like gnu ) the software has, or if the license matters.


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redblade8 wrote:
Ok, thanks for letting me know. It's too bad that it doesn't work on any OS other than windows xp. :s
The screenshot I found looks like vista though? Or it could of been a visual theme plus the toolbar on windows xp that made it look that way.

It's XP. That's the whole point - TrueTransparency and BorderSkin provide the glass borders, while Styler provides the explorer interface, and together they have you fooled :lol:

redblade8 wrote:
Do you know if the source code is available? I'm not sure what license ( like gnu ) the software has, or if the license matters.

Closed Source AFAIK D:

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 12:33 pm 
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Quote:
It's XP. That's the whole point - TrueTransparency and BorderSkin provide the glass borders, while Styler provides the explorer interface, and together they have you fooled


Oh. That's pretty cool.
I found a video on youtube where someone installed styler toolbar on windows 7. Maybe it could work on windows 8/10?

Quote:
Closed Source AFAIK D:

Closed source? Darn. I did find a quote saying that the program is provided free now, so it's freeware. You can't do anything with abandonware? The closed source doesn't allow anything to be done?

What about contacting the author for the source code? Though I'm not sure where you could find the contact for them.


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redblade8 wrote:
Splitwirez wrote:
It's XP. That's the whole point - TrueTransparency and BorderSkin provide the glass borders, while Styler provides the explorer interface, and together they have you fooled :lol:

Oh. That's pretty cool.
I found a video on youtube where someone installed styler toolbar on windows 7. Maybe it could work on windows 8/10?

I've tried it. Doesn't work on x64. Idk about x86 though...

redblade8 wrote:
Splitwirez wrote:
Closed Source AFAIK D:

Closed source? Darn. I did find a quote saying that the program is provided free now, so it's freeware. You can't do anything with abandonware? The closed source doesn't allow anything to be done?

Not sure about the legal stuff, all I meant was that we don't have the source code. And good luck decompiling that...thing.

redblade8 wrote:
What about contacting the author for the source code? Though I'm not sure where you could find the contact for them.

Call me crazy, but that might just be our best bet. Plus I know someone who used AutoHotKey to remove the existing Explorer Navigation buttons, address/search bar, etc. , so...

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 7:04 pm 
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I've tried it. Doesn't work on x64. Idk about x86 though...


Oh, ok. It might of been x86 in the video. On windows 8 it installs, and you get a tray icon, but it crashes right away.

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Not sure about the legal stuff, all I meant was that we don't have the source code. And good luck decompiling that...thing.


Yeah, I'm not sure if it even could decompile, maybe, but I'm not sure.

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Call me crazy, but that might just be our best bet. Plus I know someone who used AutoHotKey to remove the existing Explorer Navigation buttons, address/search bar, etc. , so...


Not sure where to look for any info on the authors contact.

Anixx made a program in ahk I think that removed the navigation buttons, address bar & search.
I didn't know about autohotkey though, that's good information.


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