Classic Shell: Forum

Hi

Background:
In Windows 7 (x64), running Classic Shell, under Settings > Main Menu tab, we have "Minimum Menu Height".
However running Windows 8 (x64) there is no such option(!)
Question:
How can I increase a) the number height and b) the number of menu items on the Start Menu when running Windows 8?

Explanation:
To get clear, what I mean is: Wwhen I click on the Shell button a list of stuff appears above it. I have quite a high resolution screen (1080p) and the problem is that the size of this and the number of items on it is too small. So how can I increase both?

Thanks

J

P.S. FWIW, I have selected the "Windows 7" style.

Make sure that on Windows 8 x64, you installed the latest release, Classic Shell 4.0. If you are using Windows 7 style, then the Minimum menu height setting exists on the Main menu tab. You could also search for it by typing any of the keywords such as: height.

To increase the number of items shown in the main menu, again go the Main menu tab in Start Menu settings. Look for the setting "Max recent programs" and increase its value. You can choose between Recently used programs or Most Frequently used programs. If you use negative values such as -10 or -20, the order will be reversed (bottom to top).

_________________
Links to some general topics:

● Compare Start Menus

● Read the Search box usage guide.

I am a Windows enthusiast and helped a little with Classic Shell's testing and usability/UX feedback.

OK thanks - I hadn't expected the menu options to just disappear if I was using a different style! (suggestion: Grey out the options that arent in use?)
Many thanks
J

Greying out means more clutter and potential confusion because settings also get greyed out when they are locked. Hiding the settings that don't apply means less clutter.

_________________
Links to some general topics:

● Compare Start Menus

● Read the Search box usage guide.

I am a Windows enthusiast and helped a little with Classic Shell's testing and usability/UX feedback.

Avoiding clutter is a false ideal.

What is FAR more important is: A) that something is easy to use and B) if possible looks appealing.

Ease of use include being intuitive and ease to learn.

For example Microsoft removed the Start Button from Windows 8 because it was "clutter" ==> OUTRAGE!
For example they have also removed the Network Activity Indicator. ==> IMHO, another huge mistake, because we cant see what's going on. That's fine when things are working fine, but when they aint it most certainly aint!

The only exception to clutter avoidance being less important than easy of use are high end luxury products, where style is more important than substance. But let's be honest Windows is a functional tool not a lifestyle statement.

Yes agreed. Form should not intrude too much on function. Of course, design has its place but I am a big believer in not focusing excessively on design so much that it sacrifices functionality and usability.

In Classic Start Menu's case, there are 100s of settings so showing settings that will always remain greyed out doesn't seem beneficial.

_________________
Links to some general topics:

● Compare Start Menus

● Read the Search box usage guide.

I am a Windows enthusiast and helped a little with Classic Shell's testing and usability/UX feedback.

You may have a point.... However I'm not sure which is worse, menus that leap about with options appearing and disappearing depending on other selection options, or having stuff in the correct place but greyed out. Close call I'd say.

However if there are "100s" of settings, this is potentially a huge mistake.

To come clean, my background is in building usable, mass-market (but slightly high-end) websites.

Okay here is what I would do:

1. User trials
a) I'd sit down separately with about 6 to 12 completely naive users and one at time and I'd see what options they want to change most. Ask them to narrate their thinking. Video them if necessary possible.

b) Ask them to change specific stuff and see where they go and what they do.

Shouldnt take more than a few hours max.

2. Modes
I'd a create big, obvious button that toggles on and off an Expert/Novice mode.
And Id divide the menu options into the two modes putting the frequently changed stuff into the novice mode, and the infrequently requested stuff would go into the Expert mode section.
And even when you are in the Expert mode it might be helpful to flag up the novice mode stuff graphically so that we are guided to the most frequently changed items.

3. Popup help
Another thing that could be done would be to use popup help bubbles all over the place to explain things. It needn't be intrusive. But if done well is incredibly helpful to novice users.
Again, the text should be tested out on real users to make sure that they understand the exact wording used.

4. Automatic monitoring
Later, if you really wanted to go for it, you might also build some options into the system that allows feedback automatically so that you can track what has actually been changed. It would need to be a strictly opt-in option I guess. But frankly this would be time consuming and painful to build and manage. And importantly it would allow you to track user *sentiment* and rationale...

5. Intelligent listening
Don't listen TOO hard to users. They dont always know what they actually want. Be aware that you may have stumbled upon a nutter, worse a noisy nutter who is liable to ruin the interface for everyone. So users need to be listened to intelligently. Does their feedback make sense. Moreover one needs to stay big picture. What is the overall thing that the user is trying to do? What is the 'job to be done' if you will... and how does it break down into sub-jobs?
Btw, for the trials I would make sure that I have a diverse range of types of user and hardware. e.g. Some users should be on high res screens some on low res. You might have some very young users, some very old users, perhaps some drunk users, and maybe even some Apple users...

...Anyhow I hope that makes some sort of sense. With humility, the above tuppence worth is what I personally would do.

* * *

Btw, fwiw, I cant see why we wouldnt want to be able to change the height and the number of items on all three styles of Start Menu !

The start menu is actually two menus in one - classic and win7. They have about 70% similar settings and the other 30 are different. It makes little sense to add 30% extra settings that are grayed out. Settings are grayed out if they are inaccessible, but they are often close to the reason why (like the "button size" setting is inside the "custom button" setting, so it is clear that it is disabled because its parent setting is not selected). In other cases they are disabled because of a registry setting or a group policy. Those settings are clearly marked as such.

To understand the reason why classic menus can't have a height you need first to understand why the win7 menu has a height. It is because the main menu is shared between the pinned/recent programs, the search results, the jump lists, etc. If the menu is short because you have fewer pinned programs, you will also see fewer search results. So it makes sense to have an independent height setting. The classic style on the other hand has no reason to be taller than its contents. The search results and the jumplists show as separate sub-menus with their own independent size. And if you really, really want a taller menu (because you like tall menus and you can't lie) you are free to insert blank items for padding.

Btw, you *can* change the number of recent items in all 3 styles of the Start Menu. As Ivo said, in Classic styles, the number of items added or remove dynamically changes the height of the menu. Also, most settings are common between the 3 styles, only a few exceptions such as the height setting are specific to a particular style.

_________________
Links to some general topics:

● Compare Start Menus

● Read the Search box usage guide.

I am a Windows enthusiast and helped a little with Classic Shell's testing and usability/UX feedback.

OK I get that it's a kinda complicated thing to implement. V tricky.

Out of interest what did you make of my user thoughts on user testing. Is this the sort of thing you have already done?

J

Btw, I want to really, really want to say that it's FANTASTIC though to have what you guys have done already with Classic Shell.