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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 12:36 am 
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Forums can be dificult to navigate, especially to newcomers, and when the post are in the thousands. Forums built in search functions are usually lacking, and the best way to search is usually google.
I know most forums keep all their old post, there has to be a better way to navigate/organize. There are alot of post/topics not likely to be relevent/helpful to people in the future that could be trimmed off.
The buttons section could have a pinned post, with instructions on installing, links to other button resources, info on creating custom buttons, and possible a conglomerate of all the custom buttons.
Also maybe buttons should be catagorized into 2 catagories :
themed - anything starwars/ect based on something other than a button...
classical (unless you can think of a better name) - anything entirely designed to be a button, with no particular theme at all. some examples would be the vista start button, the metro button, ect...
classical would probably be on top, as there more likely to be used :P

is there an easy way to allow users to delete there own post, even after it has been replyed to? and/or a way to allow the creator of a post to moderate his own thread? (give him power to delete post, but not ban?) If so i request these features.

If you guys need help moderating i would be glad to help :P


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 8:39 am 
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Looks like users can delete their own posts already, but I don't see a setting to allow users to delete whole threads.
I made you a full moderator. If you want to tidy up some of the threads, go ahead.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 11:59 am 
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users can delete there post but only if they havnt been responded to.., im guessing there isnt an option to allow deletion of ones that have been responded to
and i wasnt thinkin they should delete the whole thread (although that could be useful to), i was thinking more of delete someone elses post that responded to their thread. but thats ok

@moderation ah ok thanks :P

EDIT: i see the moderation control panel on the main page, but i dont see any way to delete post or anything (other than post waiting moderation), im asuming i have to first report the post then delete it, testing that now


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 12:08 pm 
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Doesnt seem to be working cant delete this post through anything moderator related, or any others (i can delete it cause its my post and the last one made though

UPDATE: it looks like im only a moderator in the tutorials board, but i do see some more options there :P
also i would prefer it if it didnt say my name on every board like that :P, mostly that just adds to the clutter


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 6:49 am 
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generally speaking, the less moderating that happens, the better a forum operates, today & in the future.

alot of "useless" posts add personality, depth, vibrance, & coherence to the forum.. and it makes for a full picture when read several years down the road

It also makes it a funner place to post.. we arent all robots, and cant always simply post every bit of relevant information.. we're not writing a book here.. a forum is supposed to be a fun place to communicate

A better method to deleting posts would be to give them different colors or shade them slightly if they dont contain relevant information, or brightly color the ones that are most useful & relevant to answering the Original Post

It'd suck for this forum to go the way of the uber-moderated


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 7:28 am 
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Mods tend to create Acolytes, and many are themselves cross-site Acolytes


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 8:04 am 
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@Jcee: Try again, I added you to the list of global moderators.

@Tenzen: I don't expect moderators to rule the forum with an iron fist. But often posts are placed in the wrong forum or need to be split. Also sometimes there is spam that needs to be deleted. Few people in different time zones can do a good job in keeping the spam out.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 1:49 pm 
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duno about you, but years down the road, or when i find a forum for the first time (one i dont plan on sticking around) i usually just want the info im looking for, and then want to get out
i dont plan on moderating any of the recent post, but rather deleting unimportant information from topics that are likely to get viewed, so there will still be the same sense of personality, it will just be shaved down some after a month or 2.., ive seen forums where ive had to dig through 20 pages of people chatting about this or that, before finding any relevent info.. thats a real pain.., also i dont plan on modding every topic.. mostly just tutorials and stuff to remove all the "great job posting this" as it really adds nothing but wasted space to the conversation (although innitially it is good to hear that your work is apreciated, you dont read it every single time you open the thread do you? :P)

also its still showing me as a moderator specifically for the tutorial forum, but yes i am a global mod :P


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 8:25 pm 
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@Jcee: gee.. i personally not only want to hear I did good job, but want everyone for Aeons down the road to also hear that someone thought I did a good job.. and if aliens someday find this thread after humans are extinct, I'd like them to know someone paid me a compliment.. who knows.. they may think we are kind people and decide to start our race again.. or maybe aliens will someday read them and know we're nice & friendly people, and decide not to blow up our planet, afterall... but that wont happen if you delete those posts, leaving you solely responsible for the annihilation of the human race.

anyway, i like reading old conversations.. the cool thing is when you can add more comments years down the road, and begin a new conversation with other readers of the same topic

I dont think any threads should ever be locked just because they are solved.. thats ridiculous.. time is not even a factor in threads.. the internet is not time-sensitive. if someone wants to bring up a post from 5 years ago and get more information about a solution, and get answers from a different set of readers, thats awesome, and way better than opening a new thread, and having duplicate threads all over the forum, each containing partial information. alot of site mods are like "good enough answer, i got what i want for my site, this thread is locked, deleting all irrelevant rubbish you spatted, thanks for playing.".. which is really kind of a bleed. just using posters for what they want to get out them and then tossing them to the curb.. like posting in internet forums is some sort of slave labor..

but i agree with moving things to the proper locations etc, for sure..

@Ivo... well, if you need me to help in maintaining the integrity of the forum from the (UTC+08:00) Beijing, Chongqing, Hong Kong, Urumqi TimeZone, I'd be glad to help you out with deleting spam or hate-posts, other unwanted things..


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 10:24 pm 
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@Tenzen
so you actually think a post that brings absolutely nothing relevant to the topic to be important?
Some people dislike users who browse a forum without the intention of posting/becoming a member because they feel they are just using it. Yes they are using it, but does it harm the forum for them to-do so? nope, it just doesn't help, compared to them joining in.

Forums can really be used in 2 ways, 1. Living/experience, that you get to know people, and make friends. or 2. as a powerful archive of questions and answers...
some people from group 1, dislike people who use a forum as a tool, because they feel they are just using it as a tool, instead of caring for and nurturing it like something that matters...
personally i want to maximize accessibility to those people who don't have time to read 10 pages of information,

and i agree with you about the irrelevancy of time, when it comes to posting Usually. although a lot of forums frown upon necro-posting. Even if the original poster isn't around to read your answer, someone goggling around will likely find it, and receive it. Unless that post is irrelevant :P, in-which case it just drags up old dust..

as a user who is there, as a thread is unfolding its a lot easier to get through 20 pages over the course of a few days/weeks/months, and you can even give input to the conversation
but as a user who stumbled upon a post that's over a year old. that's a lot to read to get the information you need. Having efficient, and easily accessible information reduces the chances of that user needing to post on the forums asking a question that has already been asked. giving the forum users more time to respond to new topics.
@ "someone might read them and decide we were nice people....", it is always a possibility, or they could become frustrated looking through the stuff that they would deem junk (not of interest to them) and decide TO "blow up the planet". yes i took the alien reference out :P, and if by some random turn of events I am responsible for mankind's demise, so be it.. its not like i did it on purpose :P

*I'm curious, if when your searching for an answer to something your working on; if you actually take the time to read every forum post completely through?, or just skim page after page until you see something your looking for?


I think that a fully developed topic should be trimmed of personality, because all it does in my opinion is bloat down the relevant information, and increase the chance of Irreverent necro-posting.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:00 am 
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seldom, if ever, is a post completely random. all are in response to something.

If you really think the poster has absolutely nothing to offer a forum, then ban him or her, rather than just deleting his or her posts.. if you would like people to continue posting in a forum, you need to show a bit of respect and caring for that persons opinions and posting.

I dont think anyone posts simply because they want to waste space.

if you want to create a forum filled with malice, spite, contempt, disrespect, bad or hurt feelings, etc etc, then really, do what most moderators do and just make a place where they can post whatever they want to post and let a small number of posters who can tolerate the environment, or who feel pleased with the abuse of others rights, gather about the skirt

forums today are ridiculously over-moderated... there have been many examples of arguments & discussions on forums which made into mainstream views or even referenced in Wikipedia and other sites.

I think the generation of kids who were beside themselves showing off to mommy & daddy that they can run a website have mostly grown up and moved on... we're all adults here. We can decide what to write and what to say in life. We dont need an online communist regime re-arranging discussions to conform to agendas & propaganda

What you are doing when you delete someone's post is dehumanizing them, telling them they are not in fact capable of making intelligent decisions, and that you, are actually smarter than them, and have a better way of thinking.. which, yes, we all know is a common line of reasoning with people creating websites across the web who somehow think they are not only smarter than everyone on earth because they can use DOS, bust better and tougher too.

I dont think many people can argue that your average forum moderator's personality works tirelessly to portray himself to be an equal mix of Albert Einstein & the Incredible Hulk

it plagues the internet users of the world

All power corrupts.. Absolute power corrupts absolutely... and miniscule forum power corrupts people into miniscule megalomaniacs. time and time again

and the one thing they all have in common, is that they abuse their power.

they arent smart.. not even approaching intelligent by any stretch of the imagination.

they just think they are, and so they abuse & molest the minds, welfare, rights, dignity, and efforts of others

they mostly are lacking in basic manners and social graces.. I suspect they never make it out of the house. time and time again they show they have no concern for others, no respect fro anyone but themselves and like-minded twits, and no empathy or understanding of anything at all..

and this is a new site.. it has yet to begin here..

but seems to have begun..

I'm sure there are many readers & would be mods who's spine is tingling and whos teeth are aching reading this post, wanting it deleted.

but get over it... grow up... get a personality...

who knows how you will do, I suspect not much better. much as anyone else given any sort of power over even the tiniest of things in this life, of which mods are the quintessential example

but then, I grew up in a world before the moderator came to be. I remember the first moderators.. sent out to protect the image of larger corporations as they were beginning to tackle the wild rough & free world that was the internet.

and i recall how quickly that changed to the modus operandi for every single site on the net, where there was power to be wielded and excuses to be made for it

I Call it over-moderating.

The internet has always been a place for empathetic & interested readers & scholars.. though it seems overrun by selfish kids with ADD and no concern for anyone or anything but themselves

and just as alot of open-source or freeware software developers try to rope people into their websites and reading their information etc, as a small price to pay for their hard work, so too do people posting wisdom in forums expect the reader to care about the writer and the conversation enough to read through it, rather than just popping in and taking info, and running away with it like a fruit ninja.

i think mature-minded people can read through the existence of what is, as it was created, as its always been on the internet, and in life.. the world and all of its inhabitants do not need to tailor to the teenage megalomaniacs with ADD on Ritalin with the attention span of a turnip

Speed reading is an obtainable skill for all.. as is skimming..

pages load in microseconds, and ya, I do skim through a hundred pages of conversation in less time than it would take me to find the same information in a bookstore.

if people get frustrated, then, imo, they need medication, counseling, or psychotherapy, not a world that conforms to their disorder.

and beyond those 2 ways u mentioned, is the third way, how one can read the internet by the people who made it, not the mods who edited it.

and I for one would be much more interested 50 years from now to see how people thought talked, & interacted than in whatever info i might trying to be looking up.. and i'd have nothing less than contempt for the moderator who took that away from me 50 years ago

anyway. thats my own freedom rant..


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:10 am 
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the term "Moderate" & "Moderator" have been taken WAY out of proportion..

its supposed to mean keep a fair & balanced discussion, without allowing things which may damage the reputation of a company, or which arent unfair or hazing or abusive

It has since come to refer to abusing rights, hazing non-moderators, creating unfair advantages for buddies, and damaging the reputation of the customers/posters

its like the Twilight Zone


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:55 am 
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ok that was a long read :P, and i see you feel very strongly on the topic.., i would just like to point out that i don't believe power usually corrupts (some times it does), but rather corruption seeks power. For example, someone who is greedy, seeks power so he/she may fill their thirst for money..
and i don't believe all moderators are bad, its simply the bad ones stick out far more than the good ones.. in my opinion moderation in general is a step forward from the spam/advertisement filled internet we would have without it.

@'post are rarely random'
Although it is true that most post do have some level of coherence to the original topic.. people often go off on tangents, or unrelated/personal discussions, that aren't particularly helpful to everyone else reading the topic... and some topics in general don't really relate to the general populace (this entire thread for one :P), since most people visiting this particular forum aren't here for the community, but to find answers as to why this or that isn't working properly. There are plenty of forums better suited to un-moderated discussion. than a help forum designed to help users quickly find the answers they need.

@people posting to waste space; yea i would agree that most of the time there not, however a lot of post do in my opinion 'waste'space after they have served there purpose..., and once the thread has received a response, your post cannot be removed, except by a moderator.

@shaping the agenda; i have no intention of deleting post that conflict with my viewpoint on a particular topic...

@definition of moderator: that may be the definition, but the only reason the term moderator is used, is because that was the original design/intent of the system for admins to get assistance, not all tools have to be used in there intended ways. but yes it is a stretch of the word, but then again words evolve...
I've had some bad experiences with some moderators to... but what they do is usually in the interest of what they believe to be right (except in some cases, where people do stuff just because they can)

all this being said, and how strongly you feel on the topic, i think ill take my moderating a step back :P.
also most people think they are at least above average intelligence :P.., when logically only about half of us are, its human nature to believe they know better than others whats right/wrong, and resist change..


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:22 pm 
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well, for sure I think you're a pretty good guy, but I've seen good posters go from that to lunatic simply by getting mod powers

@Power Corrupts: Power is usually sought by the corrupt.. thats true... but moderators have alot of power, and they continually abuse it.. there is no better example of this than http://www.stopforumspam.com

Its a website started by a moderator, who wasnt happy with his powers to ban a user from one particular site..

I myself have had moderators chase me around the internet.. ones who were offended by my calling them out on their abuses of powers and their violating their own forum rules and seemingly not caring at all for a moderate environment, but one which favors a particular View-point of long-time members/the site owners & moderators.. alot of mods are mods on more than one site.. its pretty creepy to leave one site, only be harassed by the same guy on a different site..

http://www.stopforumspam.com claims to follow US Title Code 47,230, but that code states you need a valid reason to a serious threat or other serious problem.. but that site has no transparency, there is no public record of the content of the post nor a reference to the thread.. nor a screenshot of the activity, nor anything but what is often a lie posted by disgruntled moderators abusing your private email address you entrusted the site with, to satiate his spiteful grudge against you...

its a website created specifically by website moderators who are not content with banning someone from their own website for any reason they see fit.. (and they do ban for literally any reason they see fit.. even if they go against their own forum rules..).. so that they can take their personal vengeance against one user who may have said things that makes them feel dumb personally... and then, completely anonymously, and only using the APIkey of any random website, and making any excuse they want to, without offering their own email address, or name or any other pertinent information, they can ban any user for any reason across a large number of websites on the web.

thereby, one single crybaby disgruntled moderator can defame your entire reputation & ban your entire existence across the internet, giving you no recourse, and without offering any public record of the reason why, nor giving the banned user any notice, not knowing who, when, for what, or why he was suddenly banned from the entire internet..

and any moderator on the planet can ban an address across the internet on all websites using this service. its complete defamation of character, and completely illegal. there's no proof offered, no accountability, no transparency, and no notice given to the user they are covertly banning across sites

its simply a tool for anonymous little internet forum moderators to abuse more people even further, & even more anonymously... its created by moderators and reeks of their personality from top to bottom.

The only negative thing one has to post in any forum is simply regarding the abusive activities of a moderator, or their abuse of power, manipulation of information, lie-creation, propaganda creation, unbalanced forum, misguided loyalties, or incorrect knowledge, and suddenly you're banned from the entire internet.. they can give any proof they want, any old lie, in total anonymity.. and dont even need to use their own APIkey..

a better name for that site would be "whining-moderator-cybabies-of-the-world-unite.com"

I wonder which moderator, from which site, created that website.. it must have been one where he literally couldnt stand to see him ban a poster in one website for no reason at all, in a display of unbridled megalomania & mini-che tyranny, only to see him posting in another site.. which threw him into a moderating seizure..

its a vengeance, a personal grudge, a complete embarrassment & total loss of face, alot of hate, and a very deep insecurity, that caused that kid to create that site

and all it does is serve other little like-minded dweebs who think their little forum power should extend throughout the entire internet.

pathetic

I stand behind every post on every webiste I've ever made in my entire life since IRC chat & newsroom days before forums were even invented.. and yet my email has appeared on that last.. and all i've ever dont is call out injustices as I see them, and point out the Moderators own abuses.. which explains the entire thing, i suppose..

its the worst degeneration to hit the internet yet... what they need to have is a site which reports the abuses of moderators.. and bans their website from the web

thats way more in line with the intent of US Title Code 47,230 to create a fair & balanced internet


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:26 pm 
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I actually got banned from a star wars site for saying I liked episodes 1-2-3, and that i thought Luke Skywalker was a pathetic crybaby in comparison to the Jedi Knights in the new series...

I've been banned from alot of sites, and most of them are personal vendettas from the moderator, or from personal vendettas from users on other sites who use that site as well.. and their vendettas are for a wide-array of reasons, from revenge, loss of face, unable to handle the truth, feeling insulted by some truth, having an agenda revealed, calling them out on this or that, debunking their entire knowledge base, stating an unpopular opinion, going against the grain, or bruising the world's largest & most inflated ego & sense of self.. none of which have anything to do with breaking forum rules or US Title Article 47,230


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 8:39 pm 
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that website apears like a good idea on the outside yes.. asuming it were properly settup... IE with proof, and ban appeals..

Ive personally been a mod to several sites, and seen the same spammer jump from site to site (someone literally posting hundreds of links to porn sites, on a suposedly safe for work bord..., with no other post)


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 8:56 pm 
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Well, this is my site and here are my rules (of course subject to change without notice :)):
* spammers get banned, their accounts and all posts are deleted permanently. these are usually very obvious - a new user posts one or multiple similar posts with many links to external sites

* threads can be moved to appropriate forums by moderators. often new users don't bother finding the correct forum and just post at the first place they find. this was particularly bad at the old Source Forge forum because by default all new posts go to the first forum in the list

* threads can be split at the moderator discretion if they begin to cover multiple unrelated topics

* seriously offensive posts are deleted. I've only done this once few years ago for a post that used a lot of profanities and was calling for the death of all Microsoft employees. That's unacceptable

Other than that, I don't care what you post. If I don't like it I would not bother to respond or even read to the end of your post.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:24 am 
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Im actually a big fan of anonymity on the internet, but NOT in conjunction with power :P. im all for free speech in all shapes and forms. but i do understand that there are places for it, and the need to keep a help forum 'family friendly' overrides the need to be able to curse and yell.

that being said, i to stand behind everything i say/do, i may admit later that it was a mistake, but i wont deny saying/doing it. That doesn't mean i want everything i say/do to be broadcast on national TV for everyone to see. forums are essentially the same. just on a smaller scale. but i guess thats what private messages are for...


(this isnt a warning or anything, just a suggestion)
@tenzen one of the things that may help board organization: rather than making several post in the same thread, minutes apart maybe you could edit your first post to include the new information, since its not to likely that its been seen..
Why? because some people subscribe to threads, and get an email notification every time a reply is made.., so thats 2-3 emails instead of 1 :P.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:51 am 
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@IVO, thats right, its your site, and you have your own rules.

it would make no sense for you to not like someone for whatever particular reason, and then get him banned from a wide array of sites across the web... including sites which have nothing to do with yours, etc..

@Jcee, you think its a good idea, thats your prerogative, and some sites actually make it against the rules to post more than one post together, regardless of the time span.. and if you post two consecutive posts, even a week later, they call that spam, and ban you.. which is fine, its their site, who cares, nobody wants to hang around sites like that long anyway unless they just enjoy watching a steady stream of people join, post, & then get banned, for entertainments sake

but for the mod of that site to be able to put the user on a web-wide Ban list? when the majority of other sites dont find it a problem, and most good email clients have options to group messages from senders anyway? not only is it ridiculous, but should be illegal, and the only use for it would be for feigned condemnation & hazing & satiating psychotic monomaniacal vendettas

heres the main problem with mods, they are just normal people, with their own views & opinions AND they have a stake in the topic at hand, a position, a stance, and a viewpoint.. they cant be moderate when they are radically advocating one side of the story or problem or issue.. its a conflict of interest... it makes it impossible, and negates their judgement

Spam like you mentioned to promote paid sites or services is pretty obvious across the board...

but posting two things in a row is not, and is barely rational as a guideline, let alone a rule, and barely comprehensible on one site, let alone on every site.

and what you are doing is holding one person accountable for things he hasnt even done yet..

what it really does, actually, is put your site in a a circle of sites that may as well just be one site. and that wont last long.. as I for one would rather depart from the hazing site ring and depart for free-er surfing waters, than give up my email and concede to having my identity banned.

and any site that joins in entertaining obvious vendettas and hateful little grudges wont last long on the web, and will be replaced by free-er companies individuals, and their websites.

and most forums have live-in trolls who's sole goal is to get people banned.. we could do that here, you become the mod, we're buddies, i lure newcomers who dont align with my agenda into breaking the rules, I PM you, you ban him.. you know how it works..

and then the very idea of a troll has been perverted... where it was once a verb to draw out nothing useful but cursing, its now become not only the name to call a poster (hazingly, and in violation of most all forum rules, yet widely condoned), but also come to refer to anything said that someone else doesnt agree with..

suddenly, if i dont like your post, and it makes me want to say something back to it, then it has now come to be defined as a thing which trolls me.. conversation doesnt exist much on forums at all anymore..

and then, they again can ban you across all sites?

or if you are a mod in 2 forums, and I post something promoting Classic Shell, a free & open-source application, but other people in other forums Hate that program and promote a different program, and then i post it in another forum where you're also the moderator? and now you really hate me, and am i now guilty of spamming too? from one site to the next even?

its complete and utter lunacy is what it is

i have no problem with the concept, but alert people you are banning via email, since its your email they ban, and state which site and which mod and which APIkey, and for which post you were banned across all websites

that site seems good because thats what the kid who made thought too.. the perfect place for him to abuse anyone he or his little ring of whining Ritalin-induced buddies dont like..

they've likely never had a conversation with anyone other than a sockpuppet, and so dont really get how conversations go .. but whats that to me?


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 1:03 am 
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as i said, the banlist makes sense if properly implemented (and i dont think it was properly implemented), things like reasons, and proof of offense should be required to place a ban, and appeals should be allowed... and even ban catagories (so if you wanted to have less restrictive ban you could ban spammers, but not double posters ect) not that i believe double posting is banworthy at all :P, and infact double posting after more than a few hours is entirely fine in my book

That being said, site admins dont have to use that banlist, and its not like its being implemented everywhere :P


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 1:15 am 
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ya, you're probably right.. who knows how long my emails been there.. when i tried to register at Portableapps.com, so I could see what kind of interest I might find for Classic Shell, that site came up as blacklisting me by my email during registration..

I tried to appeal, but (as most people would) i stated that what they were doing seemed highly inappropriate and was likely illegal, and highly defamatory, and that if I wasnt removed, i would take legal action

the clever little twit who made it wrote on his website on his legal notice page, 30 different ways he has been handling all the legal threats he gets from forumites who obviously have been banned wrongly, as any actual spammer would have thousands of email addresses anyway, each one of them as disposable as the other

he then cleverly states than any mention of legal action and he will never, ever, respond to you or remove your email


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 6:15 am 
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Firstly when you threaten legal action you really put someone on the defensive, which makes it a lot more likely they will resist what you are asking them to do. Secondly the person you are writing the appeal to isnt likely the same person who put you on the list, so any kind of insulting/threats, will really reduce the chances that he takes HIS time to help assist you.

sadly having an IP or email address thats from a foreign country (just about any country that does not primarily speak english), is likely to carry negative stigma to a lot of people.

And yes most spammers do have thousands of emails, or can easily make more.., so banning by email is even worse than banning by ip (atleast your average spammer, doesn't know how to change their IP :P)


also maybe you could make appeal directly to portableapps.com, be relaxed and courteous when explaining your situation, and remember they don't have to do anything, it's entirely their choice. this way they may decide to completely stop using that banlist website, maybe for another one, maybe none at all (besides there own), to ensure only those deserving of a ban are banned.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 7:34 am 
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ya, that all sounds reasonable... and would work for a reasonable site

i didnt event talk to anyone.. it says "repeal".. and somewhere after your appeal on a page at the back of the site somewhere is their "legality counter-measures" page with the long list of everything they do to counter-act the slew of legal threats they get.. including at the bottom, a bit about "im never ever going to reply to you if you say anything about legal action against me and your name will stay banned forever or until settled in a court of law"

it has nothing to do with spam, and everything to do with creating an environment where they can ban people across sites for nothing to do with spam, and everything to do with personal vendettas

its a vindictive site

anyone, finding themselves or their name on a black list which is trying to force itself into wide-spread acceptance where any moderator can add your private email you entrusted them with, in complete anonymity, and with complete support by that site, would likely default to some mention of defamation & legal action.. were they to know the actions of that site to be criminal in nature

legal action is not a threat... thats handling matters without resorting to threats. thats the legal & proper way to handle matters.. otherwise, there's little left but actual threats.. anyway, you can spend your money on a lawfirm to take down what is likely just a fake spoof site anyway created as a means to further some doofy agenda & allow a little grommet to punish people unfortunate enough to have come across his little site.. extending a punishment into other aspects of the users life beyond the cretins own domain.. or spend it on hiring an investigative PI firm to run down the online forensics and let you know who made it & where he lives... if I was going to do one, I'd choose the latter.

so, its set up to basically say, "whoever replies to me asking to be lifted from my obviously hazingly illegal website, will never ever be removed from my list, thereby giving me a reason to keep your email banned forever"

and once you've sent that, it doesnt matter how many other emails you send or what they say, it says right there on the site in the fine print that he will never lift your email from the blacklist..

hence, its for the sole reason of banning people permanently.. its a sickly, disgusting, cowardly behavior, which is right in-line with the behavior of alot of mods i've come across in my 20 years of internet usage.

and then he hides.. there is no email address given to contact anyone, no contact information, nothing which shows any sort of identity or accountability.. its all created for this one purpose and this one purpose alone.. and nothing to do with spammers...

And I'll inform portableapps.com and any other website I come across using this service of exactly the type of people they are in bed with, but they'll likely have to stop using the service for me to be able to access their site

but i did contact a lawyer, but for way cheaper I can hire a Private Investigative Service & Online Forensics company to find out who he is & where he is hiding... which would seem more fruitful.

at any rate.. its just a joke, perpetuated by the same sort of mods you find in most forums.. thinking their clever, but theyre just clowns.. and they dont really even seem to care that theyre clowns..

but whatever.. forget it

and ya, I'm in China, but so are alot of Expatriates.. and there are countless Expatriates living all over the world from English-Speaking countries in Eastern Europe, Russia, Elsewhere in Europe, Central & South America, West Asia, East Asia, SE Asia, & all over Africa.. to judge someone based on IP alone is pretty silly.. since most of the people in these countries dont bother with English sites, at least not in any communicative fashion you can even understand..


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 8:36 am 
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Ive seen people judged by IP before :P, especially when its the only thing to go on, but i personally try not to. Although statistically, alot of scams are run out of china or under-developed countries, because of enforcement of laws and such...

"so, its set up to basically say, "whoever replies to me asking to be lifted from my obviously hazingly illegal website, will never ever be removed from my list, thereby giving me a reason to keep your email banned forever"

and once you've sent that, it doesnt matter how many other emails you send or what they say, it says right there on the site in the fine print that he will never lift your email from the blacklist.. "
to me this is is a little unclear.., the first bit is a paraphrasing correct?
because what kind of person admits there website is illegal, thats just asking for legal trouble.
and if they didn't want to accept ban appeals, why would they even accept any responses...
also theres probably a lot of push and shove in there line of work.. if someone screams at you, you usually scream back.. They possibly added that 'fine print' because they were tired of being harassed by banned members.


legal action is a threat, albeit within the law. saying or implying any action that the recipient believes to be a negative consequence, is infact a threat, whether it qualifies for counter-legal action is another matter...

Ironically, i've been told by a cop (asked outa curiosity, not circumstance). that giving someone an ultimatum isn't threat. (unless that action isnt reasonably avoidable) IE "Do that and ill kill you!!"

also you actually contacted a lawyer over this?, and you talk about holding a grudge :P


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:51 pm 
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i dont remember the exact words, you can go over there and look it up on their legal page

the point is, it is set up to work like this:

  1. It shows you are blacklisted from registering at all sites using stopforumspam.com, which they are using at the site you tried to register at, with a link to stopforumspam.com website
  2. you go to the site, and it shows you a list of the most recent blacklisted email addresses, with an apparent degree of great pride, so mods can go there and gloat over seeing the people they've blacklisted.. if it was for actual spam, there would be no reason to hang out and show off the email addresses you are blacklisting, as they're all disposable & meaningless anyway.. hence, right off the bat you are confronted by a site that is boasting of the emails they blacklist, yours included
  3. You look around the site and you dont see any other reason for it being there but to tout email addresses, and you search harder and discover a way, through menu items, to eventually ask for a repeal
  4. By this time you are foaming at the mouth at the wiseguy who would make such a retarded waste of space which seems to be very giddy about having blacklisted your email address which you've used proudly for 20 years, and is well known around the web
  5. You find it to be nothing but slanderous, hazing, oppressive, underhanded, devious, and shrouded in hidden intent since nothing makes any sense on that site at all..
  6. You know, then, by matter of deductive reasoning, that there must only be one use for this site, for people to destroy your online presence, out of spite, hateful grudges, vendettas, malevolence, and that you apparently have one or a group of creepy stalkers on the web who are actually moderators at some site you likely registered for for a day, posted an opposing view, and were immediately flamed, trolled, & banned by the imbedded group of usual suspects / forum-mates..
  7. You look the site over high and low for a contact method, because at this point you dont want to appeal anything, you want to speak with the owner of the site and find out who exactly added your email to the list.. but there is no such email address to be found on the entire site.. for a site that touts banning email addresses, theirs is completely secret
  8. You look to see what it takes to ban an email address, and so you click on "submit an email address", and find it requires loads of personal information about the person being banned, that is likely never even to be found from actual spammers, and absolutely nothing from the submitter but any random APIkey
  9. So you look for some sort of identity, any identity, of who may be behind the site.. and you find absolutely nothing.. 100% secret, hidden & totaly anonymous.. as if it wasnt actually created by anyone
  10. So you go back to that quasi-appeal option, which you already know is not really going to reach anyone worth talking to... and will probably end up in the basement of some unsuspecting mothers home who has worries about what her kid is doing down there all day, but doesnt have the heart to find out for sure...
  11. So you tell that hidden-in-the-basement creepy little cretin exactly whats on your mind, still in disbelief as you're typing that such a site is even fathomable, and you tell him frankly, the site is slanderous & nothing more than Defamatory, which is obviously illegal and nothing else, and you tell him to stop his little dorky illegal behavior and take your personal email address off of his retarded blacklist. the same as anyone would..
  12. Then you never receive any reply, ever.. then you go back looking for a way to hunt him down, and you by chance stumble across some obscure legal disclaimer at the back of the site that says if the request you sent him stated anything about any sort of legal problem, or legal issue, or stated any other sort of legal action, then your email address will never be removed and you will never be replied to
  13. you are then left with no recourse...
-
its is SOOOOOO the typical moderator..


its nothing but a big old troll.. a typical forum trap set up by mods and their cronies ... you find such little traps all over the internet, that are for no other reason than to ban users from their site, and to try and let them continue imagining they have something useful to offer the world, and are somehow in control of the entire internet.. which obviously has a few holes in it, and so they created this site where they can carry over their delinquencies into other domains and haze & degrade & defame you to their teeny tiny whits last end

you know, Law is there for a reason. there is no "threat of a law". the law is the law.. and there needs to be a justice if theres a law or else the law is meaningless

and laws are made to protect people.

and its precisely because there are numerous cretins who thrive on the misery & oppression & abuse & manipulation of others that there needs to be laws, because their actions are such that they need to be punished, and if not by a law, then by the hand of the oppressed.

its for their own safety & protection as well.. a Lawyer is what is called when the Plaintiff or the one who has been wronged believes the wrong-doer should be shot in the head, but the one who has been wronged is a law-biding citizen or doesnt particularly think the issue is really worth the bloodshed, or the offender really worth the bullet

thats why we have lawyers.. and why need them.. a "Threat of Legal Action" is something criminals say when they are about to uprooted & weeded out...

that isnt a threat...

Sending you a photo of you in the mall creeping people out with creepy little stares from across the way, together with a bullet and a little note saying "remove my email and pay me $50,000, or just pay me $50,000 by noon tomorrow, or your mom will wonder why the basement no longer smells funny" is a threat.. obviously

But its one or the other..

I chose the legal, correct, and proper way to deal with people such as this, causing problems such as this

in an ideal world.. there wouldnt be this kind of people who do this kind of thing.. but, reality check.. thats the way the world is.. chock full of little cretinous creeps


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 12:32 am 
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checked faq, saw this :

I'm listed on your site but Im not a spammer


Firstly, its not an accusation of anything. A lot of the information that is listed is gathered from "honeypots" setup to trap spammers. Being listed on the site doesnt mean you have been sending spam. The IP address that you have, mightve been inherited from someone that spammed, someone may have just used your email address or even that you have downloaded a virus or trojan. If you use the removal page and be polite, then we can figure out what has happened and get it fixed."






to me that seems fairly polite, and decent of a request; i clicked the removal, page, but since im not on the list, it said i wasnt on the list, and i cant see any other page.. unless i submit my own name to the forums..

the homepage is a slightly offensive, in the fact that it singles out email addresses and such. but one possible reason is so when someone issues a ban, they can confirm it has been added successfully. Also clicking a random 10 emails, i see that 8/10 of them had over 10 email addresses banned..
although 1 of them had 3, and the other had 2.
This is a small sample, and some legit users with heated opinions are bound to slip through the cracks.. but overall, it seems atleast 80% of bans seem to be spammers.., yes though they could have a system that removes 1 email address from each IP every 30 days, because the spammers create like 10 emails a day, that number would be insignificant, and not worth the spammers time to re-use that email anyways..., and would remove any legit people from the list...





[h3]



[/h3]


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 2:38 am 
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what you dont read, is that if you mention anything to do with legal action at all, they will never remove your name from the list, ever..

which is just a ploy to try to keep themselves in the business of being jokers

and note how the very first thing they do is INSIST on you being polite.. because apparently if they feel your request does anything but verbally caress their entire being, they will never ever remove your email address either

I doubt anyones ever talked to them politely..

thats like the police pulling you over, slamming your head into the curb, hauling you off to jail, and then leaving you in prison for life if the first thing you said to them was anything other than "thankyou sir"

the entire site reeks of saucy cheekiness

and then it vaguely states they will review it & if they think its been entered "Fairly" then you will never receive a reply either and also never be removed

so already they have 3 or 4 reasons to never ever reply to you and never remove your email.. ever.. and you have no idea for what or which one..

and they dont even bother telling you what they think constitutes "Fairly" and for what offenses your email has been banned

again, its 100% non-transparent, and offers no outlet for anyone other than members of the Berlin Boys Choir to receive answers to any inquiries

there is alot of hoo-haa on that site and not a single piece of relevant information.. there is a clinical term for not caring about anyone other than yourself and believing you are in some sort of perma-god-mode & other such ludicrous behavior.. its called "megalomania"..

and i'm not entertaining their disorder


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 5:53 am 
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they suggest you be polite for your own sake. the people deciding whether to unban you are infact people to. and what would you do, if someone started screaming/yelling at you, then asked you to do them a favor.., i know personally id probably laugh, and ask them "why should I". although yes there situation is a bit different, and they just may not understand your frustration.., someone once said your greatest tool is a smile, and in many cases i believe that to be true..


although maybe there showing different information to people blacklisted, or maybe if your reading a chinese version? i dont find anything ive read on that site to be all that outrageous or uncalled for...


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 7:27 am 
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well, he replied with a taunt of his own..

and then said they arent even in america..

so why bother creating a whole page referencing Law Suits & US Title Codes?

nothings adding up..

i replied as nicely as I could .. and invited him to this thread.. he says its great publicity for him anyway..

but there are alot of unanswered questions, such as:
  • why the content isnt referenced
  • why the holder of the email is not notified
  • why the submitter is not required to provide any personal information
  • why moderators & their domains are not vetted more thoroughly or banned for submitting emails fraudulently
  • why those sites blacklisting emails arent public record so we know which sites are violating their own terms of agreement regarding personal information handling
  • why does it reference american laws & the American legal system if its "not american and those rules dont apply to us"
  • why there seems to be nobody accountable or responsible for what goes on on that site
  • why there's a big list of email they are banning on the front page rather than just sending email notifications to those submitting the ban request
  • an explanation as to why banning email addresses from spammers is even effective when spammers burn through email addresses like candy and legitimate posters are the only ones who care about their email addresses
  • why there is no phone sms verification of email addresses or some other type of verification sent to the email address prior to it being banned to request verification & proof of ownership
  • and what kind of action are they taking to protect us, the users of the internet, from creepy little moderator-stalkers?.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 7:34 am 
and if this douche bag had even looked, he would find that his email address isnt on the site. If it was, i wouldnt remove it after his abuse, which you can read at

http://www.stopforumspam.com/threats


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 10:27 am 
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why would he have been directed to your site in the first place, if his email wasn't on the list. i read on one of the pages, i think the ban appeal page, that some other site, was redirecting, or maybe expanding your list on their own? so he's basically complaining over something you have no power over, on that site?


Although he may seem like a 'douch bag' (not that there's any need for you to escalate things by calling him that) to you, and this particular thread isn't a good example for his usual personality.. (at least from my past experiences, he seems helpful and nice)
when someone gets heated there personality can change quickly. which is likely the case given his previous experience with moderators.. I think,he has a great deal of censorship in his own country, with 'the great firewall of china' and all.. (apologies if this is off, i'm not an expert on the subject)
and once someones on the offensive.. its not hard to want to go defensive, and take a hard stance against them, regardless of what is right or wrong.

if your website is designed to only stop spammers, and not people with 'hot tempers' you should try to accommodate people with hot tempers, because in their situation it is a reasonable response, even if it isn't the correct one. Although it can be hard to give a whiner what they want, sometimes it is the right thing to do, regardless of personal opinion. Now if you had a specific section for 'livewires', or people you suspect to be easily riled up, that would be a different matter.. but it shouldn't be a category that is included by default when admins of website decide to use your list or not...

Also even if he doesn't have legal grounds, he does have some moral grounds, and he has supposedly put a lot of work into earning a reputation around the web, on that email address... even if it isn't his personal name.. its still defamation of what he holds to be his identity.. as far as legality is concerned.. I'm not a lawyer so i wont pretend to be one... especially since you're most definitely more versed in the subject, having to deal with such threats,


somewhat offtopic: I believe ive read in some cases (of copyright infringement), that some courts have ruled an IP to be personally Identifiable, and thus part of their identity.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 5:47 pm 
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david wrote:
and if this douche bag had even looked, he would find that his email address isnt on the site. If it was, i wouldnt remove it after his abuse, which you can read at

http://www.stopforumspam.com/threats


wow, my name is also David.. is that your name or did you do that for my benefit?

man, your email was filled with more F words than I can count.. tell me again how politeness is the way to get things done? but if I say something bad, you're going to judge me as someone not worth responding to, is it? isnt that a bit silly?

and yes, it was, and no less than 4 entries, and at least 2 of my other usernames, which I alone use and nobody else on the internet, which all appeared when searching my email address, all with a little China flag behind them

and your site states "Several hours" before a reply... after submitting an appeal

and further down it says "no more than 24 hours" before a reply..

maybe you need to change that to like 4 days, dude..

anyway, incase you dont read my email, as you say, here it is my reply to:

EMAIL:


and you were the one requiring people to be polite and said if everyone wasnt polite then the email will stay there forever anyway..

I was not allowed to register on portableapps.com because of your site blacklisting my email address

When I first did a search for my email it came up with 4 entries & usernames

I just searched again and they are now gone.

so why the lie? typical moderator-style truth is it?

I have to say, i nailed every point above right on the head, didnt i

you need to allow people to join your forum who you have banned, i cant even join your forum to ask about my problem

and then of course everyone will say something about legal action.. because defamation is highly illegal in America, for Americans... i think most people would say that, & thats the reason you have posted so much legal information on your site.. but to say "we wont ever respond to you if it says something about legal action" even when you're not even american ? then it just seems like a way to ban people permanently without giving them any outlet to appeal your ban

look i hope you can fix some of the things I mentioned in that forum, especially the points in my last post.. if you want your site to be respected and legitimate, then you cant simply make it a broader banning tool for corrupt moderators who abuse their powers anyway... I can tell you right now a list of about 8 or 12 moderators who would love to have put me on that list because they personally hate me and have a personal vendetta against me..

I'm going to guess the one who blacklisted me goes by the name "Andrew Noseworthy" and moderates "Gzstuff"? I almost knocked that kids head in in the real world.. I know him actually.. he's more afraid of me than anyone on earth.. and would love nothing more than to do something exactly like this..

as would several other VERY corrupt mods in certain gaming forums.. and one media forum

I'd appreciate it if you could tell me which one.

I dont hold you personally accountable, I hold them accountable.. so long as I'm not on your site for something i havent done, I have no problem with you or your site.. but i would hope that other people are not being similarly abused by corrupt moderators through your site, and you should hope so to! and you need to make it so that cant happen, or your site will fail eventually

so please give me the information, I will contact them myself and get to the bottom of this

thanks for removing my name from your site. I appreciate it. sorry it had to come to this..

thanks


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 3:52 am 
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how would he be able to tell you who, if mods can submit names anonymously, also that would violate their privacy.. and if it is the guy you stated you would probably beat him up :P

also defamation might be illegal here, but it isn't HIGHLY illegal.. its definitely not in the same category as rape, and murder... :P

also if it took 4 days, before a response.. i would suggest changing it from severa hours to: "reply times may vary, but are typically no more than 24 hours" or something of that nature... (unless it already says that, and tenzen is miss interpreting it :P)


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:36 pm 
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Quote:
how would he be able to tell you who, if mods can submit names anonymously, also that would violate their privacy.. and if it is the guy you stated you would probably beat him up :P

he has the APIkey.. thats enough..

and thats the entire problem with the internet..

its the only medium on earth where people can do any sort of crap completely anonymously

look, as a general rule, for all u mods out there with little to no experience outside the your pizza-box-cuttered room & left over grilled-cheese sandwiches from mom: if its likely to get your face smashed in, dont do it... dont think hiding out in secret suddenly makes it ok.. ok? I'll publish a free e-book all about it with with colorful illustrations, soon, so hang in there kiddos, help is on the way!

and for the record, I dont really blame you.. I think most of the blame lies with your parents, and their hands-off approach to raising their children/allowing them to fester in the basement.

Quote:
also defamation might be illegal here, but it isn't HIGHLY illegal.. its definitely not in the same category as rape, and murder... :P

its a Proper & Legal response to something that should/could/might/probably would get someone hurt/injured/beaten/battered/hospitalized or worse

I'm all grown up.. thats what grown ups do.. when I was younger, I'd definitely think the other options were a whole lot better..

and its true that America is not the entire internet... and I dont really care where you live.. if you want to be a creepy little cretinous stalker, I think the Authorities of wherever you live will handle you appropriately.. if you're not in america, all the better.. i hope you end up in prison, and if your governments corrupt, I'll be sure to pay them a large sum of money to ensure you dont trouble anyone else, ever.

Quote:
also if it took 4 days, before a response.. i would suggest changing it from severa hours to: "reply times may vary, but are typically no more than 24 hours" or something of that nature... (unless it already says that, and tenzen is miss interpreting it :P)


no, nothing misinterpreted..

and every point above throughout this thread, was right on the money

where is he?

and why do you seem bent on advocating in his defense? my bet is its just because thats what moderators do.. they defend each others actions, since guilt in one party means guilt to most other parties..

he wont even come in here and defend himself, or answer for himself..

He sent me a hate email loaded with F words... he truly hated to remove my name from that list..

and you're in here, completely in his defense.. you dont even know the kid, or do u? i understand your optimism earlier on.. but still? after his little charade & debacle?

he needs to be removed from the internet

its a perfect case for making Internet Access require fingerprinting & open Identification for all on the planet to see

and it supports the case for Government control of the Internet..

when little farts cant behave like grown-ups, then the grown-ups have to come in and take it all away.. people like that will be the end of the free internet as we know it..

I would be completely happy if they were all shot..


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 12:47 am 
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well I'm not particularly in his defense.. I'm offering an alternative viewpoint.., i never once said he was a good mod/admin, simply that i haven't personally seen anything wrong with his website (not that its not there), other than the "douche bag" remark. which you've mentioned worse in this thread about him. as you said i dont know the guy.. i just dont see your argument as objective, partially because all the emotion you have brought to the house; if you want to convince me, i need actual sources.. not just paraphrasing, because they are easily skewed..

however i do disagree with your sentiment that ALL moderators are bad guys, bla bla, and feel that the bad ones just stick out more..

and @ anonymously; what internet are you on? the internet is far from anonymous theres just little/no follow through.. because you know.. "sticks and stones may break my bones.. but words can never hurt me"; although i do wish you COULD be more anonymous.

[b]Quote:[/b]
also defamation might be illegal here, but it isn't HIGHLY illegal.. its definitely not in the same category as rape, and murder...
its a Proper & Legal response to something that should/could/might/probably would get someone hurt/injured/beaten/battered/hospitalized or worse

I'm all grown up.. thats what grown ups do.. when I was younger, I'd definitely think the other options were a whole lot better.. "

Im lost here.., all i stated is name calling doesn't fall into the same category as assault, rape, or murder..., not that it wasnt still against the law. And here in america, if someone insults you, you have no rights (legal or otherwise) to beat them up if thats what your saying?


also i dont see this argument going anywhere for either of us, so i think i may be done responding :P


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:59 am 
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its a bit like saying, all totalitarian dictators with absolute power aren't bad guys, isnt it...

i didnt say all.. I'm sure you can find some likeable Communists or Fascists as well.. theyre not all bad guys... seriously..

so, what you're saying is I'm a liar cause there is no proof?

ya, I do think this conversation is over

I've lived in a Communist country run by a Totalitarian Regime for a very, very long time.

and there is exactly no difference in how they wield their power and how the vast majority of moderators wield theirs

I mean, the internet has become the most oppressive, tyrannical, absolutely corrupt place on the face of the planet

this kook, just like most every mod I've personally had experience with, is WAY worse than the world's strongest & most oppressive Communist regimes...

I dont really know how to explain it other than its born of holding power over others

there's really no other explanation.

you want to make your own little version of reality? just delete what was there, pretend it wasnt there, alter what remains, and then lie your little swanky butt off about really happened, regardless if everyone knows differently.

that is modus operandi for practically every Oppressive Iron-Fist-Ruling, Mind-Controlling, Propaganda-Spreading Regime to have existed since Hitler.

exactly, in every way, to what goes on in forums..

I've spent most of my life being controlled & manipulated, oppressed & brainwashed.. I know exactly what it is, how it works, and what it feels like, and what kind of cretins are behind it..

and I dont really care what your laws are or arent. i know whats what, and what becomes what, and what deserves what...

and ya... it is Defamation... this is about the defamation, and abuse of power by mods..

I am the last person on earth to give a crap about name calling, since I grew up when you could say anything you wanted to on the internet. anything at all.

I'm all about the free speech

I pointed out his potty mouth because his entire facade is dependent on his telling everyone else they are out of line and wont be responded to if they dont talk to him like he's anything but the little princess he thinks he is.

and thats that.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 6:38 am 
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Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2013 1:44 pm
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the internet is pure(mostly)... free-speech.. you're mad because someone chose to tell others that you were a spammer, those others chose to listen, by adding you (although not directly) to their ban-list. its their fault if they fell for the 'lie' or sacrificed some non-spammers to ban the true spammers more easily..

If you want to say absolutely whatever you want, to whoever will listen, start your own website.., because although the internet itself is all about free speech, privately owned websites don't have to be.., in a sense what is tolerated on a board, reflects not just on the poster, but on the boards owner for allowing it to remain..


as for calling you a liar, i'm not, i'm simply stating i have no idea if you are telling the truth or not.. because i hardly know you either (although i still know you better than him)

and yes i DID want to clean a few threads up, that went off on tangents not really related to classic shell..., because that is, and what this website should be about... but that was before i realized how strongly you felt against it...


As you suggested earlier, instead of deleting post, ill change their coloring/size to make them easier to discern/skip


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